'We're not being a bunch of nimbys' say HS2 opponents

MIKE Kerford-Byrnes bristles when he and his neighbours are accused of opposing the £32bn High Speed Rail link just because they are “nimbys”.

As expected, the Government yesterday signalled the go-ahead for the first phase of the link between London and Birmingham following a route that will skirt villages in North Oxfordshire including Finmere and Mixbury, drawing anger from residents who have fought against it.

But Mr Kerford-Byrnes says the fight has not been just about retaining a pleasant panorama from his land – which will be about 200 yards from the HS2 rail line – but because he believes the economics of the scheme do not add up.

“I’m not a nimby,” he said soon after Transport Secretary Justine Greening made the announcement.

“By the time the judgment is made on this project I will be dead, but my children and grandchildren will have to pay for it.

“Nothing has changed except the strength of the argument against it and the strength of the resistance to that argument.

“I have yet to see in all evidence they produced that it is viable economically. They are going to start building in 2016 and all the prices that are being quoted are fixed at 2009 values. I do not believe there will be zero inflation between 2009 and 2016.

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“I do not believe it will still cost £32bn in 20 years’ time.”

He said in Finmere, Warren Farm, a small settlement of 12 homes would be sliced in half, and parts of the village would be “uninhabitable”, adding: “There are houses in Newton Purcell that will be wiped out completely.

“Homes have been blighted since the announcement, but the blight has become a bit more credible.”

It is contrary to what Mrs Greening, right, said about the financial and environmental benefits to the project.

She said: “The faster journeys on HS2 – Edinburgh and Glasgow will be just 3.5 hours from London – could transfer around 4.5 million journeys per year who might otherwise have travelled by air, and nine million from the roads.

“HS2 will also create more rail capacity on existing conventional lines for freight – removing lorries from our busy trunk roads.

“HS2 is therefore an important part of transport’s low-carbon future.”

The announcement highlighted a series of changes to the 140-mile route between London and Birmingham, including new tunnels, or extensions to already-planned tunnels, at Greatworth in Northamptonshire, Turweston, near Brackley, Chipping Warden and Aston le Walls in Northamptonshire.

This first £16.4bn phase, introducing 225mph trains and cutting London-Birmingham journey times to 49 minutes, would be completed in 2026. A second phase, taking HS2 to Manchester and Leeds in a Y-shaped route, would be completed in about 2032/33.

Bernie Douglas, chairman of Villages of Oxfordshire Opposed to HS2, VoxOpp, said: “I think it was a done deal from day one. The consultation was just going through the motions.”

Mr Douglas also warned estate agents told him property prices within three miles of the planned route would drop by 20 per cent.

The campaign group 51M, made up of councils along the route, including Cherwell District Council and Oxfordshire County Council, says it will consider a legal challenge to the plans.

Banbury MP Tony Baldry said he was not convinced about the business case of the project. He pledged to ensure the economics were fully investigated, that proper compensation was in place and mitigation, such as noise barriers, was built.

Sir Brian Briscoe, chairman of HS2 Ltd, said engineering, design and environmental work would start immediately for plans to go to Parliament.

Comments(15)

Dilligaf2010 says...
10:16am Wed 11 Jan 12

I think there's a modicum of Nimbyism, but I'd be inclined to agree with the argument.
If something's going to be built, build it now, with a 20% greater capacity than originally planned for, you'd think somebody would've learnt something from the M25.
Britain has some of the best engineers in the world, it's just a shame most of them are working on projects overseas, where people want something built now, but finished yesterday.
If this country is going to dig itself out of the mire, it has to start doing, not just thinking.
Give contractors fixed budgets & deadlines, no ifs buts or maybes, they finish on time, and on budget, or it costs them, not the tax payer.
There a millions out of work, and we're now behind Brazil in the World's wealthiest countries, the Government has to act.

LadyPenelope says...
10:23am Wed 11 Jan 12

Have to agree with Dilligaf. They need to start work on this NOW, using UK contractors, who stick to budgets and time frames, and face financial penalties if they don't.

Why would a house within 3 miles of a railway line be reduced by 20%?? Utter rubbish!

I've lived within 150m of a railway line which had heavy industrial trains going up and down every hour, and after a few weeks you don't even notice it.

King Joke says...
1:07pm Wed 11 Jan 12

If they're not being NIMBYs, I presume they have been actively campaigning against the Heysham Link Rd, Mottram Tintwhistle Bypass, Kingerswell Bypass, and the rail flyovers at Norton Bridge and Hitchin.

Rangi Douglas says...
3:10pm Wed 11 Jan 12

King Joke wrote:
If they're not being NIMBYs, I presume they have been actively campaigning against the Heysham Link Rd, Mottram Tintwhistle Bypass, Kingerswell Bypass, and the rail flyovers at Norton Bridge and Hitchin.
So in your world, no-one is allowed to protest against any transport development unless they have protested against all other development everywhere else?

No can't quite see your point....

Rangi Douglas says...
3:18pm Wed 11 Jan 12

LadyPenelope wrote:
Have to agree with Dilligaf. They need to start work on this NOW, using UK contractors, who stick to budgets and time frames, and face financial penalties if they don't.

Why would a house within 3 miles of a railway line be reduced by 20%?? Utter rubbish!

I've lived within 150m of a railway line which had heavy industrial trains going up and down every hour, and after a few weeks you don't even notice it.
So it's "rubbish" that houses within 3 miles of the new line have fallen by 20% is it?

Perhaps you would like to buy my house at 95% of pre-HS2 levels and then sell it on at full price, making a tidy profit. (After all, it's "rubbish" that house prices have fallen 20%)

I'm sure you can google VoxOpp and contact them - they may be able to put you in touch with suitable house-sellers.

What is stopping you? What could possibly go wrong?

King Joke says...
3:26pm Wed 11 Jan 12

Rangi Douglas wrote:
King Joke wrote: If they're not being NIMBYs, I presume they have been actively campaigning against the Heysham Link Rd, Mottram Tintwhistle Bypass, Kingerswell Bypass, and the rail flyovers at Norton Bridge and Hitchin.
So in your world, no-one is allowed to protest against any transport development unless they have protested against all other development everywhere else? No can't quite see your point....
THat's my point entirely. If you believe passionately that certain things shouldn't go ahead you are a transport campaigner. If you don't care much one way or the other, until it goes past your house, you are a NIMBY.

THere are plenty of people opposed to HS2 who don't live near the route. These are transport campaigners. It just happens that most of them do live on the route!

Rangi Douglas says...
3:46pm Wed 11 Jan 12

King Joke wrote:
Rangi Douglas wrote:
King Joke wrote: If they're not being NIMBYs, I presume they have been actively campaigning against the Heysham Link Rd, Mottram Tintwhistle Bypass, Kingerswell Bypass, and the rail flyovers at Norton Bridge and Hitchin.
So in your world, no-one is allowed to protest against any transport development unless they have protested against all other development everywhere else? No can't quite see your point....
THat's my point entirely. If you believe passionately that certain things shouldn't go ahead you are a transport campaigner. If you don't care much one way or the other, until it goes past your house, you are a NIMBY.

THere are plenty of people opposed to HS2 who don't live near the route. These are transport campaigners. It just happens that most of them do live on the route!
Let's see if I understand you correctly. If you aren't a "transport campaigners" and are against HS2 and live near the route, you are a "NIMBY" whose views are irrellevant.

And only "transport campaigners" are allowed to campaign against HS2 if they live near the route as only "transport campaigners" have the unique knowledge.

Is this correct?

Are non-"transport campaigners" who don't live near the route allowed to campaign for HS2 or is that right restricted to "transport campaigners"?

Is there a National "transport campaigner" Register where people can see who has this special right to speak out?

How does one become a Registered "transport campaigner"? Is there a national Training Scheme for "transport campaigners"


We should all be told.

King Joke says...
3:49pm Wed 11 Jan 12

You can oppose a route behind your house if you want, but to say that it's because you are opposed to all transport projects in principle, when clearly it is just because it's behind your house, is dishonest.

Dilligaf2010 says...
4:34pm Wed 11 Jan 12

Rangi Douglas wrote:
LadyPenelope wrote:
Have to agree with Dilligaf. They need to start work on this NOW, using UK contractors, who stick to budgets and time frames, and face financial penalties if they don't.

Why would a house within 3 miles of a railway line be reduced by 20%?? Utter rubbish!

I've lived within 150m of a railway line which had heavy industrial trains going up and down every hour, and after a few weeks you don't even notice it.
So it's "rubbish" that houses within 3 miles of the new line have fallen by 20% is it?

Perhaps you would like to buy my house at 95% of pre-HS2 levels and then sell it on at full price, making a tidy profit. (After all, it's "rubbish" that house prices have fallen 20%)

I'm sure you can google VoxOpp and contact them - they may be able to put you in touch with suitable house-sellers.

What is stopping you? What could possibly go wrong?
Let me see if I've got this correct, your house is only worth 95% of what is was prior to the announcement of HS2?
I may have left school in 1981, but my calculations would make that a 5% reduction? Am I wrong?
So the fact that LadyPenelope said that houses hadn't dropped in price by 20%, would in fact be correct?
So why criticise her comment, you've said yourself that your house has only been devalued by 5%.

John Charles says...
4:46pm Wed 11 Jan 12

I don't live anywhere near the proposed line -- but have every sympathy with the protesters. In the present economic climate this project is crazy. I object strongly to this appalling waste of money.

Dilligaf2010 says...
5:30pm Wed 11 Jan 12

John Charles wrote:
I don't live anywhere near the proposed line -- but have every sympathy with the protesters. In the present economic climate this project is crazy. I object strongly to this appalling waste of money.
As I said in my comment, if this country doesn't do something, even in this present economic climate, we'll find ourselves in a much worse situation in the future.
As you not familiar with the expression "Speculate to Accumulate"?
A project of this size, at a time like this, would have be a huge step towards kick starting the economy again, or would you rather see more businesses collapsing, and more people unemployed?

Orchard says...
5:58pm Wed 11 Jan 12

It is a project dreamed up by a football fan and is an insult to the rest of society.

LadyPenelope says...
8:22am Thu 12 Jan 12

I think the project IS a waste of money, and they should instead spend it on re-opening rail stations in towns like Abingdon and Witney, which would make a huge difference to traffic flow in the area.

A house 3 miles from the track will NOT drop 20% in price.

Rangi, I don't NEED a house right now, but being near a railway line wouldn't put me off at all. And houses are HOMES, not to be bought then sold for profit.

Are you saying you're currently selling your house, and your buyer has pulled out and/or offered 20% less purely because of HS2?

CLLR KEN TIWARI says...
10:13am Thu 12 Jan 12

As long as objectors knows what they're-objecting about,
objecting, i cant see whats wrong with objection-so long you may knows what this project is for,
But i think some of the objectors may be just jumping- on to bandwagon, i suppose ?

padav says...
1:37pm Fri 13 Jan 12

Some wonderfully ill-informed nonsense masquerading as rational debate - AGAIN!!! - plus ca change? For those demanding that this project begins construction now, perhaps the knowledge that the compulsory purchase orders required to facilitate construction will require a Hybrid Bill to pass through the legislative process and receive Royal Assent - that outcome alone will take until early 2015, during which those against the scheme will have their chance to lobby for MPs to vote against and thus change/amend/cancel it - I believe all of this is related to something we call "Democracy" or would you rather someone just turns up tomorrow with a note telling a few hundred householders to be out by next Friday so the bulldozers can move in - that's why China can build one of these lines in less than five years but I have news - THIS ISN'T CHINA!!! There is also another blindingly obvious reason why the project cannot begin immediately - it's called money (or lack of it) - funding for HS2 will be drawn from the DfT's strategic pot, which is approximately £2bn average per year - at present (and for the next four years at least) this money is funding something called CrossRail in central London - now if you want HS2 to begin now, you'll need to cancel/suspend CrossRail, a) because of the funding and b) because all of the specialist engineering skills required are currently employed (building CrossRail) - you don't just pick up a team experienced in the use of Tunnel Boring Machines for example of every street corner! Finally we have @John Charles claiming that "In the present economic climate this project is crazy" - but that's just it @John Charles - HS2 isn't NOW at all - is it? - in fact it's years down the line (pun intended) HS2 is about strategic planning for the future needs of UK plc - again it seems that most people seem incapable of thinking beyond next week or the end of their backyards!

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