Update: Cyclist dies following crash in Bicester (From Bicester Advertiser)

Aidan.williams says...
12:26am Wed 5 Dec 12

Sad news, the speed limit on that road needs to be reduced from 50mph to 30 mph. I cycle along that road regularly and have had several near misses, even though I wear a fluorescent yellow jacket and have lights on my bike, apparently "I didn't see you" and "get off the f@cking road" seem to be the usual responses I get.

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caversfield says...
1:59am Wed 5 Dec 12

Not many details given but the blue side lights say it all about the driver. A very dangerous roundabout for cyclists due to the four lanes you have to cross. Eight to get to where you want to be, add the 50/60 limit and its hell. RIP sir.

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BryonyC says...
10:26am Wed 5 Dec 12

So sad to hear this.

From my own experience, this is a horrible road to cycle along.

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philsbabylon says...
10:40am Wed 5 Dec 12

I cycled around the roundabout about an hour before this poor man. Thoughts with the family :(

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altbee says...
11:29am Wed 5 Dec 12

RIP. Saw the aftermath on the way home. Very sad to see.

Speed isn't likely the problem here (unless the investigation suggests dangerous/careless driving), there is no way you would even be near the speed limit where this happened as it's just off the roundabout. The pavement/grass verge area IS big enough for the council to make this into a cycle path. Shame it takes something like this before they'll do anything. They've randomly put white cycle lines on Boston road, but nowhere else?

Also, that roundabout is a nightmare at the best of times, nobody knows which lane they should be in and the dual carriageway section is pointless as you only end up cutting somebody up at the next roundabout.

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bicester246 says...
11:30am Wed 5 Dec 12

Such a tragic accident. My heart goes out to the cyclist's family and to the driver of the fiesta.

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Colby99 says...
12:06pm Wed 5 Dec 12

This is sad and shocking news.

I regularly navigate that very roundabout around that time, turning right coming from A41 Aylesbury direction and towards Langford . Last night I did not as traffic was heavy and I'd ended up on cycle-path crossing roundabout effectively as a pedestrian.

My thoughts are with this poor man's family and friends.

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Jayne Doe says...
7:10pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Aidan.williams wrote:
Sad news, the speed limit on that road needs to be reduced from 50mph to 30 mph. I cycle along that road regularly and have had several near misses, even though I wear a fluorescent yellow jacket and have lights on my bike, apparently "I didn't see you" and "get off the f@cking road" seem to be the usual responses I get.

This is a tragic loss for someone's family and my thoughts go out to them, please correct me if I am wrong but there is a proper dedicated cycle path provided there as in many areas of Bicester.

So my question is why do you cyclist insist on using the public highway and endangering yourselves more than you need to ?

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Pavinder Msvarensy says...
7:31pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Jayne, because cyclists have a legal right to use any non-restricted public highway. But as you say, sometimes it is best to use the cycle route. RIP.

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BryonyC says...
8:04pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Jayne,

I don't want to comment on this particular cycle path, but in lots of cases cycle paths are no safer (and in many cases less safe) than riding on the road, particularly when it comes to junctions. Some research into this has been carried out and from my own experience of riding around Oxfordshire I have come to the conclusion that (for me) it often tends to be better to avoid riding on cycle paths. Can't speak for others.

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GBAbingdon says...
8:16pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Very sad to hear, especially at this time of year. However, I would like to raise an on-going issue here, in the hope that cyclists may actually read this. (and act).

I drive daily from Abingdon to Wallingford and cannot believe how many cyclists I see who don’t seem to realise what dangers they are putting themselves in, especially with the dark mornings and evenings.

Most of these cyclists are grown men on racing bikes, too many have no lights or extremely dim lights, they wear dark clothing, they use the road when there is a clearly marked cycle path and seem to have no regard for traffic lights. Yes, I’m sure cyclists do feel they get a raw deal from motorists, but they don’t do themselves (or other cyclists) any favours with their apparent lack of thought to their own safety. Granted, some cyclists have some VERY bright lights, but far too many fall into the category listed above.

Re: Jayne’s point about the dangers of cycle paths and junctions: Around Tilsley Park in Abingdon, many cyclists cross straight-over all of the junctions and never seem to check if a car is coming. The cycle paths CROSS the road, they should be looking in exactly the same way as a pedestrian.

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train passenger says...
8:24pm Wed 5 Dec 12

RIP. Here's a thought. In the Netherlands and other nearby countries barely any cyclist carries lights and absolutely none wear helmets or funny yellow vests. Cycle paths are worthy of the name. Rules are geared towards protecting the weak. Drivers have a wildly different attitude, having done some cycling themselves. Deaths per mile cycled are infinitely lower. You do the maths.

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Scarfey88 says...
11:57pm Wed 5 Dec 12

GBAbingdon wrote:
Very sad to hear, especially at this time of year. However, I would like to raise an on-going issue here, in the hope that cyclists may actually read this. (and act).

I drive daily from Abingdon to Wallingford and cannot believe how many cyclists I see who don’t seem to realise what dangers they are putting themselves in, especially with the dark mornings and evenings.

Most of these cyclists are grown men on racing bikes, too many have no lights or extremely dim lights, they wear dark clothing, they use the road when there is a clearly marked cycle path and seem to have no regard for traffic lights. Yes, I’m sure cyclists do feel they get a raw deal from motorists, but they don’t do themselves (or other cyclists) any favours with their apparent lack of thought to their own safety. Granted, some cyclists have some VERY bright lights, but far too many fall into the category listed above.

Re: Jayne’s point about the dangers of cycle paths and junctions: Around Tilsley Park in Abingdon, many cyclists cross straight-over all of the junctions and never seem to check if a car is coming. The cycle paths CROSS the road, they should be looking in exactly the same way as a pedestrian.

This cyclist was wearing an illuminous yellow jacket and had lights on his bike, and was wearing a helmet. Unfortunately it was just a terrible accident. I don't think it's fair to bring up that point when you are unaware of the facts of this particular accident. A cycle lane or crossing point on that roundabout would no doubt reduce the likelihood of an accident occurring, and if you are crossing the roundabout from the A41 onto the A441 or heading straight over you can get a lot of speed on the exit which presents its own dangers to anyone crossing the road. Thoughts are with the family at this time, may he RIP.

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Dick Wolff says...
9:15am Thu 6 Dec 12

Cyclists 'killed and seriously injured' in Oxfordshire have almost doubled since 2005, whereas they're nearly halved in most of the country (and have held steady in Oxford City).

During the recent planning inquiry into the proposed Barton housing development, the County was tenacious in wanting to preserve the right of powered vehicle drivers to drive at 50 miles an hour along the A40 ring-road and fought off a proposed 40 mile an hour limit. They argued that it would delay London bound traffic, but the delay is at the Green Road intersection, so it would make no difference. The result will be children from the new development taking their chance running across the dual carriageway. Great.

Cyclists, if they are lucky, are an afterthought in our Highways Authority.

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## Nonny Mouse ## says...
10:54am Thu 6 Dec 12

Cycle paths are often just a box-ticking excersise for local authorities. Very little thought seems to go into them.

To me, they create more dangers than they fix. If there is a cyclist using the road next to a (often unfit for purpose, poorly designed) cycle path, drivers get angry that the bike is on the road.

If there is, as there is in Oxford, painted lines that make the gutter a 'cycle route', it encourages cyclists to undertake traffic on their blind side. So you often get altercations/actual fatalities when vehicles turn left into a road without seeing a cyclist approaching on their near-side.

Better to do away with them all together and force people to treat bikes as 'a another' vehicle. Unfortunately, because there is so much 'freedom' with riding, there is very little control. So you get berks who kerb-hop, jump red lights and generally give the rest of the cycling world a bad name.

It's an argument that will run and run. What's important here is that a man lost his life when he really shouldn't have. I'm not sure of the details, but in almost all cases, these types of collisions are avoidable.

RIP.

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Pavinder Msvarensy says...
8:22pm Thu 6 Dec 12

Dick, since 2005 the council has spent (wasted) many million on cyclists, yet the deaths keep on going up, in that time the driving test has become more stringent. So it really says something about the attitude of a certain group of road users that ignore the highway code, and use the "i'm more at risk than you" argument to promote their cause. It doesn't wash anymore. Obey the Highway code and you will not come to any ill.

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GBAbingdon says...
8:53pm Thu 6 Dec 12

Following on from my earlier post….
I drove out of Abingdon at 7:25am this morning. There was a beautiful red sky on the horizon, but it was still dark – i.e. every street light was still illuminated and every car had their lights on.

Within 10 minutes I had passed 14 cyclists.
2 wore helmets.
3 wore hi-viz tops, the rest were all wearing black/navy blue.
4.5 had lights (the half was for a front light, but no rear).
3 were riding along pavements in the town centre.

I won’t make any comment – I think the facts speak for themselves.

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train passenger says...
1:47pm Fri 7 Dec 12

GBAbingdon wrote:
Following on from my earlier post….
I drove out of Abingdon at 7:25am this morning. There was a beautiful red sky on the horizon, but it was still dark – i.e. every street light was still illuminated and every car had their lights on.

Within 10 minutes I had passed 14 cyclists.
2 wore helmets.
3 wore hi-viz tops, the rest were all wearing black/navy blue.
4.5 had lights (the half was for a front light, but no rear).
3 were riding along pavements in the town centre.

I won’t make any comment – I think the facts speak for themselves.

Right, so that's two more people wearing helmets than would do in the Netherlands or Denmark, 3 more with vests, and about 2.5 more with lights, and then 3 who've escaped to the pavement because the road was of little help. Why do more people have to die / be seriously injured here compared to there? If you want facts, have a look here: http://www.thetimes.
co.uk/tto/public/cyc
lesafety/.
One such fact: "Some 56 per cent of crashes involving a cyclist are caused by a motorist driving in an “unlawful or anti-social manner”; and only 6 per cent by a cyclist misbehaving."

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Bartsimpson_uk says...
1:56am Sat 8 Dec 12

Unlawful and anti social are completely different. You can not put the two together. So your statistic is pointless.

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Pavinder Msvarensy says...
4:12am Sat 8 Dec 12

Train passenger, caught you out again. Ok lets go. THE TRUTH. Accidents involving child cyclists are most often the result of the child playing, doing tricks, riding too fast or losing control. For Teenage and Adult cyclists 17% of fatalities involve them falling off their bike, often drunk, and with NO other vehicle around and no collision. 20% of serious accidents result from cyclists pulling into the road from the pavement, ring any bells TP?. And now we come to your % figure. FACT in the remaining accidents 57% of accidents are caused by drivers failing to look properly, and 43% by CYCLISTS failing to look properly, pretty even, eh. But when you factor in that over 50% of accident are caused by the first 3 instances we must divide the 57% and 43 % by half and you will see that actually only 3.5% of the accidents are the drivers fault above the number caused by cyclists either to themselves without any other vehicle being involved, or when involved in a collision with another vehicle. These are Mr Cameron's figures not mine. But I have just had a thought regarding your type of statistics. 100% of accidents involving trains, are caused when one or more trains are moving. Thus if we stopped all trains moving the accident figure would be zero. Bet you like that statistic Mr/Mrs Train Passenger

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train passenger says...
2:40pm Sat 8 Dec 12

Pavinder Msvarensy wrote:
Train passenger, caught you out again. Ok lets go. THE TRUTH. Accidents involving child cyclists are most often the result of the child playing, doing tricks, riding too fast or losing control. For Teenage and Adult cyclists 17% of fatalities involve them falling off their bike, often drunk, and with NO other vehicle around and no collision. 20% of serious accidents result from cyclists pulling into the road from the pavement, ring any bells TP?. And now we come to your % figure. FACT in the remaining accidents 57% of accidents are caused by drivers failing to look properly, and 43% by CYCLISTS failing to look properly, pretty even, eh. But when you factor in that over 50% of accident are caused by the first 3 instances we must divide the 57% and 43 % by half and you will see that actually only 3.5% of the accidents are the drivers fault above the number caused by cyclists either to themselves without any other vehicle being involved, or when involved in a collision with another vehicle. These are Mr Cameron's figures not mine. But I have just had a thought regarding your type of statistics. 100% of accidents involving trains, are caused when one or more trains are moving. Thus if we stopped all trains moving the accident figure would be zero. Bet you like that statistic Mr/Mrs Train Passenger

I don't know why you won't respond to my main point: Why does cycling need to be more dangerous here than in those other countries? I think in answering that question, think about the 453 pedestrains who died in 2011 too, and tell me why fatalities among pedestrains are falling more slowly than among car drivers. Perhaps because they are not wearing helmets?
I also think you forgot part of the statistics here: Other common contributory factors attributed to drivers are „poor turn/manoeuvre‟ (in 17% of
serious accidents involving a cyclist) and „careless, reckless, in a hurry (17%). Cyclists are
more likely to suffer serious injuries when a driver is judged to be „impaired by alcohol‟,
exceeding the speed limit‟ or „travelling too fast for the conditions‟.
PS: I am a driver too and understand everyone has to take their responsibility.

[quote][p][bold]Pavinder Msvarensy[/bold] wrote: Train passenger, caught you out again. Ok lets go. THE TRUTH. Accidents involving child cyclists are most often the result of the child playing, doing tricks, riding too fast or losing control. For Teenage and Adult cyclists 17% of fatalities involve them falling off their bike, often drunk, and with NO other vehicle around and no collision. 20% of serious accidents result from cyclists pulling into the road from the pavement, ring any bells TP?. And now we come to your % figure. FACT in the remaining accidents 57% of accidents are caused by drivers failing to look properly, and 43% by CYCLISTS failing to look properly, pretty even, eh. But when you factor in that over 50% of accident are caused by the first 3 instances we must divide the 57% and 43 % by half and you will see that actually only 3.5% of the accidents are the drivers fault above the number caused by cyclists either to themselves without any other vehicle being involved, or when involved in a collision with another vehicle. These are Mr Cameron's figures not mine. But I have just had a thought regarding your type of statistics. 100% of accidents involving trains, are caused when one or more trains are moving. Thus if we stopped all trains moving the accident figure would be zero. Bet you like that statistic Mr/Mrs Train Passenger[/p][/quote]I don't know why you won't respond to my main point: Why does cycling need to be more dangerous here than in those other countries? I think in answering that question, think about the 453 pedestrains who died in 2011 too, and tell me why fatalities among pedestrains are falling more slowly than among car drivers. Perhaps because they are not wearing helmets? I also think you forgot part of the statistics here: Other common contributory factors attributed to drivers are „poor turn/manoeuvre‟ (in 17% of serious accidents involving a cyclist) and „careless, reckless, in a hurry (17%). Cyclists are more likely to suffer serious injuries when a driver is judged to be „impaired by alcohol‟, exceeding the speed limit‟ or „travelling too fast for the conditions‟. PS: I am a driver too and understand everyone has to take their responsibility. train passenger

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Pavinder Msvarensy says...
6:36pm Sun 9 Dec 12

TP, in response to your main point, cycling is more dangerous here because of the mentality of cyclists. When I am on the continent I do not see en-masse cyclists whizzing off the pavement into traffic, ignoring red lightsv & give way markings/signs, sticking their hand out and cutting across traffic without looking to see if it is safe, etc,etc,etc. Last Tuesday morning a cyclist failed to give way at a side road as I was driving along the main road and just pulled out on me, myself not wishing to swerve into oncoming traffic sounded my horn and took what evasive action that I could, the cyclist hit the kerb and was able to jump off his bike onto the pavement. When I was stationary in traffic a couple of minutes later the cyclist banged on my passenger side of my car and started to rant at me about how dangerous my driving was, when pointed out his illegal action he said that I should have got out of HIS way, not wishing to argue with somebody of his mentality I took his photo with my phone, told him that if he touched my car again the I would call the police for criminal damage, and gave him my REG NO begging him to report me to the police. All he said was w@nker and bravely rode off inbetween traffic so that he would not be caught. This TP is the mentality that causes accidents here, that you do not see on the Continent. And I hope that answers your question. But can you answer me if I was to put his photo on the internet with the caption of what a tw@t he is, and what he did, is that legal or not?

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## Nonny Mouse ## says...
8:08am Mon 10 Dec 12

And you've never been cut up by a car? There are as many bad drivers as bad cyclists.

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altbee says...
8:39am Mon 10 Dec 12

Which is more likely to result in somebody being seriously injured, if not worse Nonny Mouse? Big difference in size/awareness and speed between both modes of transport.

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## Nonny Mouse ## says...
9:56am Mon 10 Dec 12

Absolutely. I wasn't excusing the guy, my comment was in response to Pavinder's experience which has him now thinking all cyclists are the spawn of satan. I have been cut up (in my car) by more cars than bikes.

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Pavinder Msvarensy says...
7:16pm Mon 10 Dec 12

Nonny and albtee, firstly the cyclist did not cut me up but pulled out on me and then claimed right of way, and secondly I do not care if the cyclist will come off worse, I am not going to swerve head on into a bus or lorry to save the life of a lawbreaker. MENTALITY that is what this is all about, obey the highway code, that is all I ask of my fellow road users, but as the example above proves, cyclists will not. In a way I wish that had hit him, then been through the process off the police investigation and post mortem, in which I would have been cleared, then maybe cyclists would take more care, but judging by the many cyclists killed due to their OWN fault on our roads in the past few years then it would make NO difference. You cannot legislate or make roads changes when you cannot change Cyclos mentality.

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## Nonny Mouse ## says...
10:27am Tue 11 Dec 12

Wow. Mature. What an asset to society.

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Fantomas says...
5:57pm Tue 11 Dec 12

@ Pavinder
1 cyclist cuts you up so does this mean in your mind that all cyclists are the same?

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altbee says...
6:44pm Tue 11 Dec 12

Drove this roundabout at rush hour - any idea why there were police at each exit and cones bringing it down to one lane on each? Think they were handing out leaflets and talking with drivers, I presume it's linked...

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Pavinder Msvarensy says...
7:10pm Thu 13 Dec 12

Famtomas, not at all, but if cyclists want special treatment then they have to start helping themselves, I have never got out of my car and abused another driver when I have pulled out on him, that is the action of a mentally unstable person, I see this all too often on our roads now with cyclists abusing drivers when they are in the wrong spouting the old I'm at risk chestnut. No you are not at any more risk than any other road user if you obey the highway code.

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Update: Cyclist dies following crash in Bicester (From Bicester Advertiser)

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Update: Cyclist dies following crash in Bicester

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